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	<title>Comments on: Men, God, and Men Like Gods (The Enclave, Day 3)</title>
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	<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/</link>
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		<title>By: Contentment and the Book Promoter &#171; A Christian Worldview of Fiction</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15465</link>
		<dc:creator>Contentment and the Book Promoter &#171; A Christian Worldview of Fiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15465</guid>
		<description>[...] to be honored this month for their creative, thought-provoking posts:  ? ? ?  Julie ? ? ? ?  Rachel Starr [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to be honored this month for their creative, thought-provoking posts:  ? ? ?  Julie ? ? ? ?  Rachel Starr [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Penney Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15264</link>
		<dc:creator>Penney Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 05:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15264</guid>
		<description>Okay, now I&#039;m dying to read it!  Give it to me, or I will have to buy it myself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, now I&#8217;m dying to read it!  Give it to me, or I will have to buy it myself!</p>
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		<title>By: Kerani</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15244</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15244</guid>
		<description>Rachel -

I&#039;m glad the question didn&#039;t offend, and I&#039;m very pleased to read your answer.  It very closely matches what I think - that it is the mindset as we &#039;work&#039; that determines the worth of the work, not the work itself.

If Swain had the mindset of, say, &quot;This great and wonderous universe, and yet so much misery in it - I want to learn as much as I can about the universe so I can help other people be healthier and happier&quot; - well, firstly, it wouldn&#039;t have been the same book!  And it still wouldn&#039;t, I think, be quite what God&#039;s looking for, because the respect for and acknowledgement of God&#039;s purpose is implied but not actually stated.  But that would still be a long step from Swain&#039;s pov, which was more like - &quot;If I can just control the universe, I will be acknowledged as great and powerful, and that will make me happy.&quot;

And science can be a part of that mistaken arrogance, as can using the power of words - but so can being the one holding the cake batter spoon when it&#039;s time to share out the last of the icing.

Anyway - thanks again for your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel -</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad the question didn&#8217;t offend, and I&#8217;m very pleased to read your answer.  It very closely matches what I think &#8211; that it is the mindset as we &#8216;work&#8217; that determines the worth of the work, not the work itself.</p>
<p>If Swain had the mindset of, say, &#8220;This great and wonderous universe, and yet so much misery in it &#8211; I want to learn as much as I can about the universe so I can help other people be healthier and happier&#8221; &#8211; well, firstly, it wouldn&#8217;t have been the same book!  And it still wouldn&#8217;t, I think, be quite what God&#8217;s looking for, because the respect for and acknowledgement of God&#8217;s purpose is implied but not actually stated.  But that would still be a long step from Swain&#8217;s pov, which was more like &#8211; &#8220;If I can just control the universe, I will be acknowledged as great and powerful, and that will make me happy.&#8221;</p>
<p>And science can be a part of that mistaken arrogance, as can using the power of words &#8211; but so can being the one holding the cake batter spoon when it&#8217;s time to share out the last of the icing.</p>
<p>Anyway &#8211; thanks again for your thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15211</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15211</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth, thanks for your thoughtful comment! You&#039;re a sharp reader -- reading your observations has been really enriching. 

So thanks for calling on me to clarify my position: I don&#039;t believe that all scientific endeavour is equal to playing God; rather, Swain&#039;s scientific endeavours are tainted BECAUSE he&#039;s trying to play God. 

It was belief in a rational and knowable Creator that enabled modern science to get off the ground in the first place, and to my view, scientific endeavour is much like writing novels -- we do it because God put it in us to do it. When we do it well (and doing it really &quot;well&quot; should involve acknowledgment of God), we glorify Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth, thanks for your thoughtful comment! You&#8217;re a sharp reader &#8212; reading your observations has been really enriching. </p>
<p>So thanks for calling on me to clarify my position: I don&#8217;t believe that all scientific endeavour is equal to playing God; rather, Swain&#8217;s scientific endeavours are tainted BECAUSE he&#8217;s trying to play God. </p>
<p>It was belief in a rational and knowable Creator that enabled modern science to get off the ground in the first place, and to my view, scientific endeavour is much like writing novels &#8212; we do it because God put it in us to do it. When we do it well (and doing it really &#8220;well&#8221; should involve acknowledgment of God), we glorify Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Let the Wrap Party Begin! &#171; A Christian Worldview of Fiction</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15202</link>
		<dc:creator>Let the Wrap Party Begin! &#171; A Christian Worldview of Fiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15202</guid>
		<description>[...] ? ? ?  Julie ?? ?  John W. Otte ? ? ?  Steve Rice ? ? ?  Stephanie ? ? ? ?  Rachel Starr Thomson ? ? ?  Fred Warren ? ? ?  Dona Watson ? ? ?  Elizabeth [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ? ? ?  Julie ?? ?  John W. Otte ? ? ?  Steve Rice ? ? ?  Stephanie ? ? ? ?  Rachel Starr Thomson ? ? ?  Fred Warren ? ? ?  Dona Watson ? ? ?  Elizabeth [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kerani</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15196</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15196</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.

(Nice set of posts - crisp and to the point!)

I would try for a book, but it seems I already have one!

&gt;&gt;&gt;In many ways, all of human history is a refusal on the part of man to admit that he is man and that God is God.

hmmmm.

I take your point about the arrogance of humanity, and our mistaken attempts to assign more importance to ourselves than we warrant.

But (and I might be misreading you here, please say if so!) it appears that you&#039;re implying the application of science (and engineering) is &#039;playing God.&#039;  

I don&#039;t argue that Swain&#039;s actions and words absolutely indicate a refusal to acknowledge limits to his own judgement.  But it seems that your post here might be putting all scientific endevour in the same basket as Swain&#039;s tainted work.

Or am I just wildly over-reading your post? If so, my apologies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.</p>
<p>(Nice set of posts &#8211; crisp and to the point!)</p>
<p>I would try for a book, but it seems I already have one!</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;In many ways, all of human history is a refusal on the part of man to admit that he is man and that God is God.</p>
<p>hmmmm.</p>
<p>I take your point about the arrogance of humanity, and our mistaken attempts to assign more importance to ourselves than we warrant.</p>
<p>But (and I might be misreading you here, please say if so!) it appears that you&#8217;re implying the application of science (and engineering) is &#8216;playing God.&#8217;  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t argue that Swain&#8217;s actions and words absolutely indicate a refusal to acknowledge limits to his own judgement.  But it seems that your post here might be putting all scientific endevour in the same basket as Swain&#8217;s tainted work.</p>
<p>Or am I just wildly over-reading your post? If so, my apologies!</p>
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		<title>By: CSFF Blog Tour Wrap-Up &#8211; Nephilim &#171; Writing from the Edge 2</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15169</link>
		<dc:creator>CSFF Blog Tour Wrap-Up &#8211; Nephilim &#171; Writing from the Edge 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15169</guid>
		<description>[...] Rachel Starr Thomson did an excellent Third Day post on men trying to be God. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rachel Starr Thomson did an excellent Third Day post on men trying to be God. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca LuElla Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15152</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca LuElla Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15152</guid>
		<description>Me three—echoing what Jason and Karen already said.

I&#039;d jump at a chance for the free book if I didn&#039;t already own one! I like your contest, but I&#039;m head-scratching to try to think of another title with an antichrist type. I&#039;m sure they are out there.

Anyway, I appreciated your thoughts on Man&#039;s efforts to become God. Excellent.

Becky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me three—echoing what Jason and Karen already said.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d jump at a chance for the free book if I didn&#8217;t already own one! I like your contest, but I&#8217;m head-scratching to try to think of another title with an antichrist type. I&#8217;m sure they are out there.</p>
<p>Anyway, I appreciated your thoughts on Man&#8217;s efforts to become God. Excellent.</p>
<p>Becky</p>
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		<title>By: CSFF Blog Tour – The Enclave by Karen Hancock &#171; A Christian Worldview of Fiction</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15150</link>
		<dc:creator>CSFF Blog Tour – The Enclave by Karen Hancock &#171; A Christian Worldview of Fiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15150</guid>
		<description>[...] ? ?  Steve Rice  Crista Richey ?  James Somers  Speculative Faith ? ?  Stephanie ? ? ? ?  Rachel Starr Thomson ?  Steve Trower ? ? ?  Fred Warren ? ? ?  Dona Watson ? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ? ?  Steve Rice  Crista Richey ?  James Somers  Speculative Faith ? ?  Stephanie ? ? ? ?  Rachel Starr Thomson ?  Steve Trower ? ? ?  Fred Warren ? ? ?  Dona Watson ? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Hancock</title>
		<link>http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/2009/07/men-god-and-men-like-gods-the-enclave-day-3/comment-page-1/#comment-15147</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rachelstarrthomson.com/?p=601#comment-15147</guid>
		<description>Excellent essay, Rachel! I enjoyed ever word of it. Great observations and analysis of a major aspect of the human condition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent essay, Rachel! I enjoyed ever word of it. Great observations and analysis of a major aspect of the human condition.</p>
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